IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intuitive

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lovegames
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IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intuitive

Post by lovegames »

I'm sure I'm just around the corner of fiddling to figure out how to do this exactly,

but compared to Kontakt, and even my Nord Wave sample editor - I am struggling significantly more in Halion to do what - should be - an extremely simple task.

Kontakt 5 has the most flexibility without being complicated and makes it easy (Kontakt 6 even easier with automatic pitch detecting automap)

And my Nord Wave editor is even more simple albeit limited - you select between note names in the file name, or MIDI number, of which the MIDI number needs to be the last token in the name.


Problems with Halion file import:

in the import dialogue - your are forcing me to select things I don't want to select or don't yet understand. Kontakt lets you ignore certain aspects. Just let me map the files based on the MIDI number at the end of the file name - that simple.
Image

I appreciate the complexity of Halions capabilities - but this element should be a very very ultra simple task in 2020 and it is not. It's difficult to get into this instrument if I am getting hung up on such a rudimentary aspect when trying to design my own sample instruments.

-The mapping attempts I have made have not been correct %100, some samples are ending up on the wrong key or in the wrong range I'm pretty sure, or all the samples are overlapping, etc, etc.

-The Mapping functions names even are sort of linguistically non-sensical - like 'Text from Sample Name' and 'Number from Sample Name' - that in itself is confusing. It's all text. '120' is text. Does Text mean note name? If it means note name, you should probably say Note Name. If Number means MIDI number, you should probably say 'MIDI number'.... Or do these things not mean these things, I still don't know for sure yet. Is it talking about a different number? Is it looking for a alphanumerical 001 type sort number? What is 'Read from Sample File'? is this META? Then you should probably say META...... 'Mapping -> Key Text In Sample Name' or 'Mapping -> Key Number in Sample Name' - - - Does key mean, piano key as in note number (C#3) or does key mean musical scale as in "the key of the song".... If it means note number - you should probably say 'note number' or 'note name'.

I'm sure I will get it right eventually, but damn - I did not have to use so much brain power to get this to work in Kontakt.... And it would be ideal if all my sample playback instruments could use the same file naming scheme and properly utilize the tokens to map MIDI number to key.
Last edited by lovegames on Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

Just a heads up, no offense just honesty..

I would not buy Halion because of this (using demo), absolutely %200 unsold on it.

Even my Nord Editor which is basic basic rudimentary early Windows XP software, handles map by name protocol better than Halion 6.
Last edited by lovegames on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

It appears the file name can only contain one set of numbers? I don't get it, why would Halion care about a '021' number when MIDI number is SPECIFICALLY '1-127'

There's all sorts of instances where a sample name could contain a channel number like CH01, or Snare '70 Ludwig


The Nord Editor seems to operate most logically without any complexity, obviously a file name could have all sorts of numbering and such that COULD resemble MIDI numuber which is why it takes the last standard 1-127 number and or apparent note name instead of whatever first thing resembles them in the filename.
Last edited by lovegames on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

Halion gets distracted by any numbers or letter-number configurations that come before the actual MIDI number or Note name in your samples file name.

Cello_F2_41 005 CH01

has no problems

Cello005 CH01_F2_41

has problems, it doesn't read the F2 or 41.

This doesn't really make sense, because any descriptions that are numerical are going to be in the name of the sample filename that come before any tokens.


I am currently demoing Halion and this is a bit of a rough start, I cannot buy it until this protocol is improved.
Last edited by lovegames on Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

Nord Editor - no problems, I've even tried with naming schemes more complicated and convoluted than this simple test
Image

Kontakt 5 - no problems
Image

Halion 6 - problems
Image

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

Anyone else have comment on this?

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

bump

please please improve this,

I have 10,000 of my own samples named a certain way

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by Puma0382 »

Hi - You need to hope that either Matthias Klag or Michael Ruf might be reading these posts; they are the main Steinberg folk behind HALion development... I'm sure they are up for listening and taking on board user feedback - the problem is actually getting that feedback in front of them. ;)

I'm afraid I'm no help. Its a powerful tool; too powerful for me.! Lost my way with it some time ago - you know, trying to get to a point where I was at least having a little fun. But it beat me - nothing against HALion, its just that the kind of sophistication/complexity is perhaps not for everyone.

Anyway, good luck.!
System 1:- Win10 64bit, Gigabyte H81M m/board, Intel i7 4790 3.6Ghz, 16Gb RAM, NVIDIA GTX 750 Ti, 2 x 22" HD monitors; Steinberg UR44; Cubase Pro v10.5.20 (and C11 testing), WaveLab Pro v10.0.40, Studio One v4.6.1, Dorico Elements v3.5.10, Addictive Drums 2, Komplete 12, StylusRMX

System 2:- Win10 32bit, Q6600 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS, Delta 1010LT; Cubase Pro v8.0.40, WaveLab Pro v9.1.0, Komplete10, StylusRMX

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by misohoza »

Hi lovegames,

You know you can drag multiple samples and map them to white keys, black keys, chromatically, 2, 3, or 4 notes per octave simply by drag and drop to a key and possibly holding a modifier key (for black or white keys only). This is all without that mapping dialog.

I often find that mapping samples manually is just quicker.

If you named your samples in a specific way you can use the pattern in the sample mapping dialog.

Cello002_($rootkeytext)_($velocity)

Maybe it's not as intuitive or simple like in kontakt but should be possible once you try what different options do.
Win 10 Home, 64 bit, 8 gb ram,
Cubase Pro 10.5, Wavelab Pro 9.5, Halion 6, Dorico 3,
NI Komplete 10 Ultimate, Ozone 7,
UR 44

lovegames
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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

misohoza wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:45 pm
Hi lovegames,

You know you can drag multiple samples and map them to white keys, black keys, chromatically, 2, 3, or 4 notes per octave simply by drag and drop to a key and possibly holding a modifier key (for black or white keys only). This is all without that mapping dialog.

I often find that mapping samples manually is just quicker.

If you named your samples in a specific way you can use the pattern in the sample mapping dialog.

Cello002_($rootkeytext)_($velocity)

Maybe it's not as intuitive or simple like in kontakt but should be possible once you try what different options do.
Thanks for the tips, unfortunately the demo ran out and I likely won't be buying until this is improved as utilizing my own samples is most important to me.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by wpostma »

I think the person who said drag and drop into the zone, and then arranging them there, is better, has it right. You don't have to use that dialog at all.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

wpostma wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:51 am
I think the person who said drag and drop into the zone, and then arranging them there, is better, has it right. You don't have to use that dialog at all.
I have been dragging and dropping into the zone, but this doesn't map automatically? or am I missing something?


My contention is that I have MIDI note #'s in the file names of samples I'm adding into Halion, and Halion is somewhat limited it seems in how it can read the file names and assign them to the proper keys.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by wpostma »

<DELETED REPLY>

Okay I think I see what was confusing.

You did drag stuff and it did map, then you needed to click on the item that you wanted to alter and drag it left and right to expand it, I think.

You wanted one sample to cover more than one midi note right?

Or is it that you had 88 samples for an 88 key piano size set of samples, one per note, and you found it tedious to have to do it manually and your file formats didn't match the expected formats that Halion expected, for batch imports?

The manual does do a good job of explaining all your batch and single-wav options.

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by lovegames »

wpostma wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am
<DELETED REPLY>

Okay I think I see what was confusing.

You did drag stuff and it did map, then you needed to click on the item that you wanted to alter and drag it left and right to expand it, I think.

You wanted one sample to cover more than one midi note right?

Or is it that you had 88 samples for an 88 key piano size set of samples, one per note, and you found it tedious to have to do it manually and your file formats didn't match the expected formats that Halion expected, for batch imports?

The manual does do a good job of explaining all your batch and single-wav options.
I know how to do everything manually

My contention is specifically within the auto-mapping feature not being very logical, intuitive, and diverse in ability... but I no longer have the trial to test further, the test I did above is the only test. I have 10,000 of my own samples, named certain ways and I named them in such a way that they are able to work across a number of sampling/auto-map platforms I have - they don't seem to work in Halion. I know how to manually map - I don't want to manually map 10,000 files that I mapped with MIDI # note values and note names.

I didn't really understand the token name reading thingy in Halion initially (the part that's not very intuitive imo), I'd have to give it a second try, but either way, this part of Halion can and should be better to a competitive standard to what Kontakt 5 has (which Kontakt 6 now has auto-mapping by pitch detection, rather than file name)

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Re: IMPORTING WAV: Perspective from being fairly new to creating samples - Halion import mapping features VERY non-intui

Post by wpostma »

Good points. I suggest you should post a short version of the above to the Suggestions sub-group, and say that if they added that you'd be interested in buying it if that's so. I would hope that they read the forums but maybe the suggestion sub-forum is more likely to be read by Steinbergians.


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