Vertical Mixconsole in left zone (custom track headers+inserts/sends)

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Tj99
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Vertical Mixconsole in left zone (custom track headers+inserts/sends)

Post by Tj99 »

What would it be like if you had a mixconsole-like window on the left side of the screen, rotated by 90° from top to bottom (where the inspector is now), in line with the tracks in the project window, instead of having it horizontally as it is now?
So if you scroll down the project window, the mixconsole scrolls down too and it could be an even more intuitive approach to the "all in one-window" system modern DAWs try to achieve?

Let me explain:

I mostly have a lot of tracks in my projects and therefore working with the mixconsole can be distracting if you have to scroll around in 2 different windows when mixing. And even more so if both windows work in different directions (horizontally vs vertically), it just does not seem that "intuitive". The inspector is already fine, but the thing is you first have to select each track you want to change.
Don't get me wrong, it already works fine as it is now, but I think there could be an even better solution.
Imagine just scrolling down the project window and be able to set volume/pan/polarity/whatever "on the go" and having everything in line, without clicking around to open new windows and stuff like these.

Would be interested in your thoughts!

EDIT: to sum it up for those new to this thread, thats the current status:

- Making the left zone resizable and customazible, somehow like the track panel, so everything which you want to be visible is up to you and for a more detailed view you still could change to the actual inspector view or mixer view
- as an additional view for the left zone, with a keycommand you could switch between inspector and this
- Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends. The more you expand the track height, the more insert/send slots are visible.
- for those who want to work with "real faders": additionally a bigger volume fader could appear when adjusting the volume on the track panel, or you could have a resizable fader if you wish so (that will take more horizontal space ofc.

why?

- more vertical space, cause theres no lower zone
- everything at hand, more intuitive, everything is in line with each other
- 1 view instead of 2 different views, project view and mixconsole united
- inspector and mixconsole could still be left as they are now for people who do not want to change their workflow

simple example:
Image

Another example of how it is solved in Reaper with the additional "Fxlist":

Image
Last edited by Tj99 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 11:06 pm, edited 24 times in total.
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lovegames
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by lovegames »

Probably makes more sense to have pan/fader in the track controls.

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=148749&p=889921&h ... ls#p889921

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

lovegames wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:19 pm
Probably makes more sense to have pan/fader in the track controls.

viewtopic.php?f=285&t=148749&p=889921&h ... ls#p889921
That would be nice too! Every feature which helps us more to customize in the project window is welcome. Volume and Pan faders could be realised with rotary buttons in this scenario.

But just to complete my idea above, I did a little sketch, it looks horrible and there are a lot of things to consider, but it should be enough to give food for thought.
I.e. volume fader on the left, pan fader in the middle and input/ouput on the right in the left zone.
Plus: By hitting an assigned keycommand the left zone could then be expanded/collapsed to make visible/hide (the first 4) inserts+sends.

Image
Last edited by Tj99 on Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by mitchiemasha »

At first glance at title this is a what, why, that would be bad... Simply because it's so different than we're used too. However, the more I think about it the more I like it. My second monitor would display all the inserts, eq etc in line, we wouldn't get as many channels on screen but due to more length, they could make each channel thinner.

If this ideas was implemented as an option, I would try it.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

mitchiemasha wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:34 am
At first glance at title this is a what, why, that would be bad... Simply because it's so different than we're used too. However, the more I think about it the more I like it. My second monitor would display all the inserts, eq etc in line, we wouldn't get as many channels on screen but due to more length, they could make each channel thinner.

If this ideas was implemented as an option, I would try it.
Yeah, you got it!

These could be some possible scenarios (just some brainstorming I did):

- Making the left zone resizable and customazible, somehow like the track panel, so everything which you want to be visible is up to you and for a more detailed view you still could change to the actual inspector view or mixer view
- Adding key commands which expand/collapse the left zone, lets say by default you want to see only volume/pan/IO and by hitting F2 i.e. you have it expanded to see the insert FX or elements of the rack view
- Adding key commands to switch between "vertical Mixconsole" and actual inspector in the left zone

- your workspace would be used more efficiently as vertical mixconsole and inspector use the same left zone and you could switch between them. As a result you do not really need the lower zone and you have more vertical space, more tracks are fitting in the project window
- if designed properly all in line with each other it could look more coherent and less cluttered and thus even easier/more intuitive to look at
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by mitchiemasha »

I'd love to see the waveforms stacked too, including the summed waveform of a group... Now we'd easily see which cycles were causing problematic spikes resulting in more needed compression to achieve desired loudness.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by J Buckingham »

A re-sizeable left zone would definitely open the door to more GUI possibilities. I personally wouldn't use it for a mix console but with super wide screen monitors I could use it for displaying the channel settings or plugins for the currently selected track.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

Hi
The idea of having the MixConsole in the left zone it's interesting. I wonder if faders would be too small to manage them with precission.
Personally, I prefer to have one big fader in the screen of the selected track I am working with.
Here you can find more information of how I am working now. It's great for me:
viewtopic.php?f=285&t=170489&p=910572#p910572

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by mitchiemasha »

It would be too small as the left zone, for me this was a 2 monitor set up, where we have the mixer take up the left screen... but rotated.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

mitchiemasha wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:57 am
It would be too small as the left zone, for me this was a 2 monitor set up, where we have the mixer take up the left screen... but rotated.
Not if you can customize what you want to have in the left zone, in this view I would not need any racks, cue sends, routings, etc. Just volume/pan/inserts/sends.
On my 4k Screen it would roughly take 1/5 of the horizontal screen space, which is absolutely fine when mixing. Having everything you need at hand in one window is great when mixing (as it was on older consoles), so you dont get distracted, dont have to switch between views and open new windows and "rethink" everytime, even if its just for a fraction of a second. Everything which interrupts your creative flow is bad.
When editing and recording I would not need it that big and hide it or just use the normal inspector.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

Volume/pan/inserts/sends are a lot of information.
I work, like a lot of users, with portable, and our screens of 13 or 15 are not a cinema screen.
The configuration I am using with a big fader at the right of project window lets manage volume-pan-inserts-sends perfectly, so I consider it's a better solution. With this configuration I don't need to change to any other window or view, so the goal of no distraction is achieved.

Anyway, I like the idea of vertical mixconsole.
I think it would be better to put this vertical mixconsole in the right zone and leave the inspector window as it's now.
The vertical mixconsole in the right could be better to have the option of resizing the width of the vertical mixconsole, and have enough room for controls of volume-pan-inserts-sends.

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

Tj99 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:14 am
Not if you can customize what you want to have in the left zone, in this view I would not need any racks, cue sends, routings, etc. Just volume/pan/inserts/sends.
In the screenshot you have uploaded, there are pan, volume and input&output channel.
But you have said before volume-pan-inserts-sends.

I suppose you called insert to the input channel and send to the output channel.

If the idea is to have pan, volume and input&output channel, then the room is ok, not too much information.
But if the idea is to put sends and inserts, I think it's not possible to put all this information in a lateral zone.

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

jordikt wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:40 pm
In the screenshot you have uploaded, there are pan, volume and input&output channel.
But you have said before volume-pan-inserts-sends.

I suppose you called insert to the input channel and send to the output channel.

If the idea is to have pan, volume and input&output channel, then the room is ok, not too much information.
But if the idea is to put sends and inserts, I think it's not possible to put all this information in a lateral zone.
The screenshot was just an example to get the main idea...
If you put everything on the other side (right zone) you may have trouble seeing which faders belong to which tracks if there are a lot of tracks. Also you don't have this "all in line with each other" thing, which is the main idea behind this feature.

If you only display one fader of the selected track in the right zone, as you said above, then this hasnt got anything to do with a mixconsole, but is a kind of customized inspector ju. Thats not the point here.

An idea could be to show only 8 used inserts 4 sends. That would be easily possible on screens with 4k hdpi. For other people who are working on tinier screens etc. its on their own to show inserts/sends or not. People I know who are working in studios mostly have 1 bigger or multiple screens where this would work without any problems.
Just make it customizable and everyone can set it up as they want.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

Yes, left area is better than right area to avoid confussions.
Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends.
Inserts and sends could turn from one button to a small square with the slots with the names of the plugins/sends if the track have a bigger height (more than 4 lines).

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

A similiar idea is to use one knob for volume and pan instead of faders/sliders to save room, and include it in the track controls, as we have the R/W or S/M buttons.

I have opened a new post with this idea.

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

jordikt wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:18 pm

Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends.
I like this idea, and yes rotary knobs instead of faders would be fine too, even the DB meter could be displayed around the volume rotary knob! Saves even more space!
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by mitchiemasha »

Tj99 wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:14 am
mitchiemasha wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:57 am
It would be too small as the left zone, for me this was a 2 monitor set up, where we have the mixer take up the left screen... but rotated.
Not if you can customize what you want to have in the left zone, in this view I would not need any racks, cue sends, routings, etc. Just volume/pan/inserts/sends.
On my 4k Screen it would roughly take 1/5 of the horizontal screen space, which is absolutely fine when mixing. Having everything you need at hand in one window is great when mixing (as it was on older consoles), so you dont get distracted, dont have to switch between views and open new windows and "rethink" everytime, even if its just for a fraction of a second. Everything which interrupts your creative flow is bad.
When editing and recording I would not need it that big and hide it or just use the normal inspector.
My project window is small enough as is, I'm always toggling the left and right inspectors via short cut keys. I did specify "for me" I wouldn't like this increasing my inspector width but would love it as an alternative MIXER view to utilise the mixer on a second monitor... or if i had an ultra wide monitor instead of 2... in the inspector. Every bodies needs would be different.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by J Buckingham »

I knocked up this one. It looks usable IMO. If the sections were re sizeable it would allow for more inserts and sends to be visible.
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Virtical Mixer 2.PNG
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

J Buckingham wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 5:24 am
I knocked up this one. It looks usable IMO. If the sections were re sizeable it would allow for more inserts and sends to be visible.
Another approach:
I 'd put the volume and pan directly next to the track panel and shrink it. So you have every "track operation" like mute/solo/pan/volume/record/etc. on one side at hand, and on the other side all the fx you put on the track.
Like this you'd have even more space for inserts but still more working space overall. Also this could work for the actual minimum track height, which is nice if you wanna fit a lot of tracks vertically:

(forgot to add input/output bus, they could be fitted between sends and volume fader if needed, also the "volume fader" was just a quick idea to show in an exemplary way)
Image
Last edited by Tj99 on Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

and if we would have a dropdown- insert/send menu like jordikt suggested it could look like this (like this even more I think, because you have everything you need, but still a lot of space, and it wouldnt even look cluttered):
jordikt wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:18 pm
Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends.
Inserts and sends could turn from one button to a small square with the slots with the names of the plugins/sends if the track have a bigger height (more than 4 lines).
Image
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by mitchiemasha »

get a wave display in there, preferably one that draws the wave static, not scrolling... like the display in Cable Guys volume shaper. A scrolling display is hard to read.
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

Tj99 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am
and if we would have a dropdown- insert/send menu like jordikt suggested it could look like this (like this even more I think, because you have everything you need, but still a lot of space, and it wouldnt even look cluttered):
jordikt wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:18 pm
Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends.
Inserts and sends could turn from one button to a small square with the slots with the names of the plugins/sends if the track have a bigger height (more than 4 lines).
Image
Here is a small variation of the screenshot. I have moved Pan &Volume at the right of track controls. Is more clear to me.
I would do a shortcut to show/hide inserts&sends of left side, and always leave the volume and pan at the right as track controls
1234dropdown 2.png
(267.97 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by J Buckingham »

I like your designs guys except one thing... THEY DONT HAVE A FADER!!!!
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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by jordikt »

J Buckingham wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:24 pm
I like your designs guys except one thing... THEY DONT HAVE A FADER!!!!
When you put the cursor over one dbmeter, a fader appears

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Re: Vertical Mixconsole

Post by Tj99 »

jordikt wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:46 pm
Tj99 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:02 am
and if we would have a dropdown- insert/send menu like jordikt suggested it could look like this (like this even more I think, because you have everything you need, but still a lot of space, and it wouldnt even look cluttered):
jordikt wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:18 pm
Inserts and sends could be just one button with a dropdown menu window if the track have a small height (1-2-3 lines). The drpdown menu window would show the slots with plugins and the sends.
Inserts and sends could turn from one button to a small square with the slots with the names of the plugins/sends if the track have a bigger height (more than 4 lines).
Image
Here is a small variation of the screenshot. I have moved Pan &Volume at the right of track controls. Is more clear to me.
I would do a shortcut to show/hide inserts&sends of left side, and always leave the volume and pan at the right as track controls
1234dropdown 2.png
That's fine too, I first thought the same, but then I rearranged it and put it on the left.
Why? Because if you have those volume/pan faders on the right and if you scroll around your project window very fast, it is much more likely to accidentally move those faders with the mouse wheel.
We could disable mouse wheel fader movement for these controls on the track panel, thats true, but for me that would heavily impair my workflow.
In the end it should not be a big problem to make it customizable where every element has to be in the track panel. We have that already, if Im not mistaken? So everyone can arrange their track panel as they need!
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